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🇮🇱 ✡ Trying to understand Israel v Palestine ☪ 🇵🇸

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driver8
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Oops ... forgot this from a few days ago ...

A rare opportunity for Palestinian political expert Dr.Mustafa Barghouti - given quality screen time to articulate his opinions, thanks to CNN's Fareed Zakaria show > https://twitter.com/FareedZakaria/status/1711073549593493988?s=20


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driver8
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This guy is well worth a follow ...

👤 NYT bestselling journalist & lawyer, musician, poet, art critic, retired professor ✍🏻 NYT bestselling 📺 CNN BBC
THREADS—@seth.abramson / PROOF—sethabramson.substack.com / RETRO—retrostack.substack.com / VENMO—@SethAbramsonTwitter

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1715472940597170457?s=20


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driver8
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Telling it like it is ... https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1715839496401371507?s=20


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driver8
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It's very striking when juxtaposed in this way ...

In 18 months of the war in Ukraine, Russia has killed over 7,000 civilians. It’s become normal to see Russia accused of targeting civilians, breaching the rules of war and of acts of terrorism against the people of Ukraine. The West has responded with unprecedented economic sanctions, weapons supply, and calls for a complete withdrawal from occupied land.

Meanwhile, in the Middle East - 50 years into an illegal occupation - Israel has killed nearly 7,000 civilians in less than 18 days! Ordered 1 million to leave their homes and cut off food, water and power to a trapped nation. And promise more is to come. Look at how ‘the West’ responds to this - to call it double standards feels inadequate.

EDIT

Look at ChatGPT's analysis!

Please can you explain the apparent paradox in the following 2 paragraphs.

The apparent paradox in the provided paragraphs revolves around the contrasting reactions of "the West" to civilian casualties and alleged breaches of the rules of war in two different conflicts: the war in Ukraine involving Russia and the situation in the Middle East, particularly Israel's actions. Let's break down the paradox:

Ukraine vs. Israel:
- In Ukraine, over 7,000 civilians have been killed over 18 months, and Russia is accused of various violations, including targeting civilians.
- In the Middle East, specifically Israel, nearly 7,000 civilians have been killed in less than 18 days, and Israel is accused of actions that include ordering mass evacuations and cutting off essential services to a population under occupation.
Paradoxical Elements:

The paradox lies in the stark difference in the West's response to these two situations, despite the significant loss of civilian life in both cases. In the case of Russia's actions in Ukraine, the West responds with "unprecedented economic sanctions, weapons supply, and calls for a complete withdrawal." However, in the case of Israel's actions in the Middle East, there seems to be a less forceful response from the West.

The author suggests that the term "double standards" does not adequately describe this contrasting response, implying a sense of inconsistency or hypocrisy in how Western nations handle these two situations. The paradox here is that two conflicts involving significant civilian casualties and alleged violations of international norms are met with notably different reactions.


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shteve
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I think the parties in this country are scared of being called antisemitic if they call out Israel on their bully-boy tactics. Looking at the IHRA definition of antisemitism that we've adopted here, I'm reminded why Corbyn was concerned. The Jews clearly have a lot of power to force that through, though to say that is antisemitic according to the definition.


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driver8
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Yes, everyone is walking on eggshells. But it shouldn't be controversial to value life, and to agree that one life is (should be) equal to another.

What few are daring to ask publicly ...

When does "right to defend yourself" [*] run out ? How many people (children) must die in this pursuit of defence? How much 'collateral damage' (ugh) is acceptable?

When would that defence start to be perceived as a pursuit of revenge?

And just what will the Palestinians be returning to, after the dust settles? Even if Hamas can be effectively destroyed, unless there are effective political solutions, the upcoming generation will rekindle the violence to fight the oppression they were born into.

I understand how much the west values an ally in such a historically unstable region (now only Iran?) but at what cost to human life and future stability ?

Highlights yet another issue with party politics, where everyone is afraid to say the wrong thing, attacked by the baying mobs on social media and the millionaire-owned right-wing press, generating outrage and fueling division.

[*] I hate how some commentators refer to Israel as 'her' / 'herself'


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shteve
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I think it's already at the revenge state, and has been for days. And yes, all they're really doing is making more people support the Palestinian side, and potentially creating more Hamas fighters. 


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driver8
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4.5k words that ChatGPT refused to summarise! Currently the #1 article on The Atlantic (thanks to Ben Stiller?)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/

Archived version > https://archive.ph/hqLkg

 


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shteve
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Interestingly, one of the rules in the antisemitism definition is as follows:

  • Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

So, if you said "Current Israel policies are nothing like those of the Nazis", you'd fall foul of that as you're drawing a comparison. Surely the wording should have been "likening" rather than "drawing comparisons of". And even then, if Israel started killing people in gas chambers, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to legitimately accuse them of behaving like Nazis.


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Whether they define it as anti-Semitism or not, Israel IS behaving, at least in one respect, exactly as the NAZI's did, in that they are slaughtering thousands as punishment for something done by a minority in a way that is completely disproportionate.

Make no mistake this is terrorism and the commissioning of war crimes on a massive scale.

But people are so afraid to speak the truth that they couch stopping the war crimes as a 'cease fire'.

 


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