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Seriously, you think they are the same?
The problem is, I'm sure many "safe spaces for women" campaigners actually do think this. I've seen plenty shared photos and memes, mocking men wearing bras and make-up, etc.
It's a way to dehumanise and to 'other' your opponents, as seen against minority groups all over. This compartmentalises, and makes it easier to belittle the other side, increasing passions, reducing opposition's arguments to nonsense. It's a way to overcome a sort of cognitive dissonance, whereby you know deep down that the other side has some serious points, but you just cannot entertain them, they need to be shot down.
[Jez, yes I know, some vocal TRA's spew hate at JKR, Bindel et al, too]
If you're going to go around accusing people of being misogynist, just because they take a more subtle and nuanced view than you, then you are essentially an offensive oaf.
Understand this, jezzer: You are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Obsessive idiots banging on and on, from whichever side, are distracting from calm, reasoned, discussion, that is necessary to get the best solutions for all parties.
But what happened to believing all women? Her story is not an isolated case - there are 1000s of trans people happily living lives as the opposite gender, and gender dysphoria is a real thing.
So just to be clear, you would insist that the girl in this case had to use the Gents, right?
err ... cos skin colouration is something clearly visible to everyone.
Ok, how about this - as a straight man attracted to women, don't you find it very weird that some men can be attracted to other men? It's a long way from our lived reality, but we accept that it's the way they are (for whatever reason). So why can't you accept that many trans people are just the way they are, and that they are not doing it for kicks or attention or to try to play the system?
I don't believe this - people are not flip-flopping from one gender to the next each week, and indeed they should not and are not allowed to do that.
what science is being ignored, and by whom?
there has been a mass of posts attempting to demonstrate what might happen if the thuggish minority of extreme TR activists get their way.
D8 has just posted a few things that show possible problems if the thuggish anti-TR activists get their way.
It's all about balance.
You like balance, don't you jez?
I think what must drive some anti-trans narrative is the very real parental fear that your own child might come out as trans.
A few decades ago, we might have been genuinely fearful that our camp gay son would get picked on at school, have increased life challenges and reduced opportunities. Even whilst being fully accepting and suportive as a parent.
Nowadays, with the trans and non-binary lifestyles fully out of the closet, the general population is becoming more accepting and tolerant. But for some parents, there's not only the need to be accepting and supportive, alongside the fear of prejudice and lost opportunities, but there's also this very real mourning of 'losing' a child.
https://www.insider.com/mourning-my-son-after-transitioned-woman-trans-2023-3
I think what must drive some anti-trans narrative
I think it's also - using the same paradigm as homophobia - that there are some men who do have feelings that they may have transgender tendencies, and it terrifies them. They may find themselves obsessively trawling the internet, day in, day out, finding things that that highlight trans problems in a desperate attempt to convince themselves and others that they do not experience these feelings.
This is why we need much more investment in the NHS, in social care, in mental health services, ... but sadly we've had long-term under-investment during a period when it's so badly needed.
Page 3 of your Reuters report clearly states:
An overhaul of medical care for transgender minors is exacerbating bottlenecks in England, leaving thousands of patients in limbo and adding to years-long treatment delays.
The government has made this crisis in the NHS just like it's made the small boat 'crisis', and it doesn't want to fix either.
Iran - that's grim, and I understand what you're getting at, but obviously it's not illegal to be a practising homosexual in the UK, so there's no push for acceptibility.
Again, we need more tax being spent on proper care for teenagers, better sex ed in schools, etc. This will reduce the already small numbers of detransitioners to even lower numbers.
Me: Do you know about gender critical arguments ?
ChatGPT: Gender critical arguments are a set of beliefs and perspectives that challenge the notion that gender is a social construct and argue that biological sex is the only meaningful category for understanding human identity. Gender critical perspectives often hold that gender identity is not an inherent part of the self, but rather a cultural and social construct that is imposed on individuals through socialization and other factors.
Gender critical perspectives often argue against the concept of transgender identity, viewing it as a form of "gender ideology" that reinforces sexist stereotypes and undermines the rights of women and girls. Some gender critical perspectives also view the concept of gender identity as a threat to women's rights and feminist ideals, arguing that it erases the reality of biological sex and creates an unbridgeable divide between men and women.
While gender critical perspectives have gained traction in some circles, they have also been subject to criticism and controversy. Some critics argue that gender critical arguments rely on flawed or incomplete understandings of gender and sexuality, and that they can have harmful effects on transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals. Others have argued that gender critical perspectives reinforce existing systems of oppression and do little to address the broader structural issues that contribute to gender inequality.
Imagine I am a woman with gender critical views. I am fearful of the increased access that trans issues give to non-trans men to gain access to women's safe spaces.
Transgender individuals often face significant barriers to accessing safe spaces, including discrimination and violence, and it is important to ensure that their rights are protected. At the same time, cisgender women have a right to feel safe and secure in spaces that are designated for them.
There is ongoing debate and discussion about how to best address these concerns in a way that respects the rights of all individuals. Some advocates of gender critical perspectives argue that trans individuals should not be allowed to access spaces designated for their gender identity, while others argue that exclusionary policies can be harmful and discriminatory.
Ultimately, it is up to each individual and each community to determine how best to address these complex issues in a way that is respectful and inclusive of all individuals. It may be helpful to engage in respectful dialogue and discussion with those who hold different views in order to find common ground and work towards solutions that benefit everyone.
But how can we have common ground ? I do not want men to have easier access to female spaces. That's it.
I understand your concern about men having easier access to female spaces. It is important to recognize that there are a variety of ways in which individuals may approach the issue of gender identity and access to safe spaces, and it may be difficult to find common ground on this issue.
However, it is important to approach the issue with empathy and respect for all individuals involved, including transgender individuals who may face significant barriers to accessing safe spaces. It may be helpful to engage in dialogue and discussion with those who hold different perspectives in order to better understand their views and work towards solutions that are respectful of all individuals' needs and rights.
There are also legal and policy frameworks in place that aim to balance the needs and rights of all individuals. For example, many countries have laws in place that protect the rights of transgender individuals to access safe spaces based on their gender identity, while also providing protections for cisgender individuals to feel safe and secure in those spaces.
Ultimately, finding common ground may require a willingness to listen to and understand different perspectives, as well as a commitment to working towards solutions that are respectful and inclusive of all individuals' needs and rights.
What practical solutions can you suggest, to resolve the apparent paradox that gender critical women do not want to increase the access opportunities of abusers to access female-only safe spaces.
There is no easy solution to the complex issue of balancing the needs and rights of transgender individuals and cisgender women in the context of safe spaces. However, there are a few potential practical solutions that have been suggested by different groups and individuals:
- Improved screening and vetting processes: more robust screening and vetting processes can help to ensure that individuals who may pose a risk to women are not allowed to access female-only safe spaces.
- Separate safe spaces: create separate safe spaces for transgender individuals and cisgender women, in order to ensure that the needs and rights of both groups are respected. This approach may require additional resources and infrastructure, but could help to address concerns about access and safety.
- Education and awareness-raising: by helping to increase understanding and awareness of the experiences and needs of transgender individuals, it may be possible to reduce anxiety and concerns around access to safe spaces.
- Collaborative approach: bringing together different groups and individuals with different perspectives to work towards solutions that are respectful and inclusive of all individuals' needs and rights.
Ultimately, finding practical solutions to this issue will require a willingness to listen to and understand different perspectives, as well as a commitment to working towards solutions that are respectful and inclusive of all individuals' needs and rights.
social contagion
We've touched on this before - there does seem to be something weird going on with teen girls. Social contagion doesn't explain it fully - I think the bigger factors are systemic misogyny, toxic masculinity, and increased pornification (god, I sound old!). Despite better education and awareness, going through puberty as a girl these days must be hell.
Anyway - I saw this graph a while ago - relevant and interesting ...
https://twitter.com/frogs4girls/status/1632344835993620481?s=20
