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🏳️‍⚧️ ⚤ J. K. Rowling & the Trans Debate ♂♀ 🏳️‍🌈

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(@arthurfowler)
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Posted by: @shteve

Yet they seem to label anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% as transphobic. As a few people have said, it's a lot more greyer than that. I'm a big believer in live and let live, right up until that living negatively affects someone else.

For a subject that we agree is nuanced,  your first sentence seems to lack that.


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shteve
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(@shteve)
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OK, I'll agree I meant the more vocal TRAs. I suspect most trans people are very much in the live and let live category, with the more vocal activists possibly not even being trans (as we saw with the Edward Colston statue, the majority pulling that down were white).


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(@arthurfowler)
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Posted by: @shteve

OK, I'll agree I meant the more vocal TRAs.

Oh yes, completely. That's my point about the debate on social media being so divisive as we tend to only get the very vocal and perhaps extreme views from both sides, with the more moderate voices being shouted down.

 


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driver8
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Posted by: @wobbly-jelly

The reporting is still JK = transphobe - but I'm not convinced that is the case she just disagreed on some points with the "group think"

Yes, that's what I used to think too (and wanted to think) - that it was a just case of "if you're not 100% with us, then you're 100% against us" ... BUT when you deep dive into the arguments, it's quite clear that she is, and that she promotes/agrees with much harder transphobes (Posey Parker, Linehan, etc).

Posted by: @tpr007

It’s pretty simple really. 

It's really not. For example, many activists now want to stop trans women using the Ladies ... that they have been using for decades. And then there's the campaigners who want to ban drag acts as they 'harm' children.

Posted by: @wooglie

I think the only people who can say this are trans people.

Yes, or at least the 95% moderate voices. Anyone spreading hate and spouting death threats on both sides should be shut out.

Posted by: @shanec

the vast majority of trans people just want to get on with being who they want to be quietly. It also annoys me when people call trans women him rather than their preferred pro-noun, it really doesn't do any harm to call them what they want to be called.

Yes, very fair. Much of the "safe spaces" campaign is belittling and dead-naming all trans people as men in frocks, which is out of order.


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driver8
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This is excellent - over a million views in the first day. I started off watching, planning to skip though the 2 hours in about 20 mins, but it's so well-made that I devoured the whole thing (although it could lose ~10 mins). It starts off looking back at interesting historical parallels, and then later on, the juxtapositions are clearly highlighted.

A well-produced, researched, considered (non-ranty), deep-dive - highly recommended for anyone remotely interested in the issues. Add it to your Watch Later ?. (If you want even more, here's her original JKR video from 2 years ago, with 6m views).

It's the trans answer to the original 7 hour podcast / JKR interview, from a couple of months ago.

https://open.spotify.com/show/2K186zrvRgeE2w0wQjbaw7

 


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shteve
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Interesting perspective. I've watched the first 5 minutes so far and found her a little ranty already. I'm also of an age where overt expression of physical attraction between sexual partners is a little off-putting no matter the sexual orientation (holding hands is fine, kissing is eugh). I would want heterosexuals to keep that in the closet too - is that what Anita Bryant may have meant?


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driver8
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Really ? I would have said more sarcy than ranty ... it's not a church surmon! And obviously, her rainbow flag is nailed firmly to the mast.

Posted by: @shteve

is that what Anita Bryant may have meant?

Nope ...

Bryant led a highly publicized campaign "Save Our Children" based on conservative Christian beliefs regarding the sinfulness of homosexuality and the proposed threat of homosexual recruitment of children and child molestation.

"What these people really want is the legal right to propose to our children that theirs is an acceptable alternate way of life. ... I will lead such a crusade to stop it as this country has not seen before."

She also perpetuated the idea of the gay community 'recruiting' children through child abuse to become homosexual themselves. "If gays are granted rights, next we'll have to give rights to prostitutes and to people who sleep with St. Bernards. With God's continued help we will prevail in our fight to repeal similar laws throughout the nation."


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shteve
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Ah ok, Christian fundamentalist. Emphasis on the mental.


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A Youtube video by the brilliant Sabine Hossenfelder: Here

She usually does videos on quantum theory, relativity, and other scientific subjects, but all her videos are well researched, immaculately logical and carefully thought out.


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driver8
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Thanks - not heard of her before. ? Already liked and subscribed, and added to my Watch Later queue.

This is some impressive levels of engagement !

Should transgender teens transition?

This rather personal question occupies a prominent place in the American culture war. One the one side you have people claiming that it’s a socially contagious fad among the brainwashed woke who want to mutilate your innocent children.

On the other side there are those saying that it’s saving the lives of minorities who’ve been forced to stay in the closet for too long.

And then there are normal people, like you and I, who think both sides are crazy and could someone please summarise the facts in simple words, which is what I’m here for.


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